long ranged missles

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long ranged missles

Post  Red-Rocket on Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:59 pm

missles arent really used much because i think people see them as just a burst at the beginning and there isnt a real variation to them. I suggest we should add long range strike missles (and predator missle) be able to basicly lock on the enemy BC and fire across the map, (maby dodging astroids or just cheat and have them go through) there can be a warning that shows its coming on the map and minimap (maby an upgrade sensors that can detect the long range missles). They will be slower then normal and can be blocked by smaller ships and easily countered by anti-missles. i dunno just an idea as ive ben asked why to go with them when we could be going with upgraded lazers and this sounds like something that can add fun and dynamics while BCs arent directly engaging eachother (long distance wars) the new strike missles wont do much damage but they can strike on unsuspecting BCs with very low sheilds.
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Re: long ranged missles

Post  Siretu on Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:30 am

I think it's an interesting idea since I think it will make early/mid-game less boring. I'm thinking that they should take like 1-2 minutes to get to the other side of the map and it will show up on the minimap, so you have some time to react.
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Re: long ranged missles

Post  Racism Minerbane on Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:22 pm

Misstle that lands a hostile robot on a random part of the ship, suddenly guns stop becoming a nooby trap.

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Re: long ranged missles

Post  LordDragon on Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:45 pm

I like this. A lot. 'Nuff said.
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Re: long ranged missles

Post  Siretu on Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:07 pm

So let's discuss it further. I imagine it like this: You fire the missile and it goes over the map(takes about 1-2 minutes to get to the other side). As soon as it launches, the enemy team is warned and it shows up on the minimap the entire time. The missile has some health but can be shot down. I'm thinking it would be possible but pretty hard if you only have triple burst, although pretty easy if you're prepared and have penta burst.

Should all the current missiles be long range and work like this?
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Re: long ranged missles

Post  Racism Minerbane on Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:13 pm

Scanner sweeps will reveal them to be a different color then regular ships, have them take awhile to travel so you have time to man weapons and shoot it out of the air.

*Edit* Because auto declaring a misstle is coming defeats the whole purpose of having some dude sit in nav scanning all day.

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Re: long ranged missles

Post  LordDragon on Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:15 pm

This exactly how I imagined the Predator missile to work; like a hunter-killer style weapon. I don't think ALL of them should act in this way though.
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Re: long ranged missles

Post  Racism Minerbane on Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:18 pm

Could perhaps give it a seeker misstle line if you really want them to know when your shooting it. It could represent a tracking lazor or something.

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anti-missles and scan

Post  Red-Rocket on Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:26 pm

so the ping should bring it up and maby get a cheap scanner that will basicly follow it with a symbol on the minimap as a warning sign. The predator i feel and a new missle should be long range, maby have an upgrade for lange range missles to be used. I feel like missles are totally overlooked because they dont do much and are ultimantly expensive for just 1 shot, this will put a twist on it that hopefully people will use and there is action besides wraith harass BC all ins that sort of thing. I dont feel that it should have health rather it can be shot down by an anti-missle that will basicly be much faster and can lock on to it and fire. Maby add a message when the long range missle is shot down by the anti missle with some message, and it can be blocked by ships. thats my input
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Re: long ranged missles

Post  Racism Minerbane on Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:57 am

Only problem is that 3% of the BCs health is worth like 15 yellow and blue so any long ranged rockets you fired unless they did something really badass will be just wasting your resources.

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Re: long ranged missles

Post  Red-Rocket on Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:16 pm

its why i added the predator missle to the list, maby the long range strike missles will hit hard but need upgrades to do damage, the predator missle for those who dont know puts a beacon inside the ship that must be found and destroyed to stop it from transmitting where the location of the BC is which would be very useful in a long range situation
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Re: long ranged missles

Post  Sheogorath on Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:28 pm

I think I mentioned it already, but with the new weapon system (and possibly more trees coming soon) I would revamp the missile system.
- Make missiles more powerful: As of now, you might as well go for broadsides instead of missiles and might even pull up a higher DPS over time as long as your energy management is good. Their damage and effects should be increased.
- Give an use to all missiles or remove useless ones: I only see one or two types of missiles that are constantly used... Of a total of eight. Some of them could be removed or re-made to be useful and provide viable choice according to your weapon or your resources.
- Add special abilities to missiles: Missiles would become more like "abilities" that a gunner could time well or, as I mentioned, use according to his current weapon type. For example, somebody that uses Kinetic weapons might love missiles that shuts down shields for some seconds or increases all hull damage received by the enemy. Somebody facing a small ships assault might need a missile that splits and seeks out the nearby small ships.
- Balance out: Since missiles would be made a lot more useful and powerful, price would need to go up. To make missiles less of a "button mashing job" I would also add a cooldown (doesn't have to be big, but should scale with how powerful the missiles are). Perhaps make missiles such that you might want to launch one at a very specific moment.

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Re: long ranged missles

Post  Racism Minerbane on Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:01 pm

I like the idea of rockets that hurt shields and can attack through and disrupt core stability fucking with the power guy.

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Re: long ranged missles

Post  DumbMarine on Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:36 pm

Sheogorath wrote:I think I mentioned it already, but with the new weapon system (and possibly more trees coming soon) I would revamp the missile system.
- Make missiles more powerful: As of now, you might as well go for broadsides instead of missiles and might even pull up a higher DPS over time as long as your energy management is good. Their damage and effects should be increased.
- Give an use to all missiles or remove useless ones: I only see one or two types of missiles that are constantly used... Of a total of eight. Some of them could be removed or re-made to be useful and provide viable choice according to your weapon or your resources.
- Add special abilities to missiles: Missiles would become more like "abilities" that a gunner could time well or, as I mentioned, use according to his current weapon type. For example, somebody that uses Kinetic weapons might love missiles that shuts down shields for some seconds or increases all hull damage received by the enemy. Somebody facing a small ships assault might need a missile that splits and seeks out the nearby small ships.
- Balance out: Since missiles would be made a lot more useful and powerful, price would need to go up. To make missiles less of a "button mashing job" I would also add a cooldown (doesn't have to be big, but should scale with how powerful the missiles are). Perhaps make missiles such that you might want to launch one at a very specific moment.

I think missiles could use redesigning but all of these suggestions don't really touch on the issue. Missiles actually do a ton of DPS, you can get something like over 1000 DPS, but you can't sustain it because missile reloading is so slow. The reason you don't see missiles used that often is missiles are often not prioritized over getting core upgrades and broadside lasers, and they become a huge waste of money if your opponent has pumped 500+ GW into their shields. Missiles all have special abilities: predators add a tracking device to the enemy BC, one of the missiles sets fire on the enemy ship, one screws with power settings, one does energy damage. Their effects are very mild, but definitely present. There's also actually a missile that splits into 8 missiles once you fire it.

As for long range missiles, I see them as kinda pointless. The missile hits the enemy BC, 30 seconds later the enemy BC's shields are back to full. Money well spent.

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Re: long ranged missles

Post  Sheogorath on Thu Jan 24, 2013 11:26 am

DumbMarine wrote:

I think missiles could use redesigning but all of these suggestions don't really touch on the issue. Missiles actually do a ton of DPS, you can get something like over 1000 DPS, but you can't sustain it because missile reloading is so slow. The reason you don't see missiles used that often is missiles are often not prioritized over getting core upgrades and broadside lasers, and they become a huge waste of money if your opponent has pumped 500+ GW into their shields. Missiles all have special abilities: predators add a tracking device to the enemy BC, one of the missiles sets fire on the enemy ship, one screws with power settings, one does energy damage. Their effects are very mild, but definitely present. There's also actually a missile that splits into 8 missiles once you fire it.

As for long range missiles, I see them as kinda pointless. The missile hits the enemy BC, 30 seconds later the enemy BC's shields are back to full. Money well spent.

True that. But of all of these missiles, how many of them are used? And giving missiles a cooldown would tag along well the missile's slow reload: If your reload takes about 10 seconds and your missile launch CD is 5 seconds, then you will run out of missiles far less quickly. In a way.

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Re: long ranged missles

Post  LordDragon on Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:09 pm

I don't want to see a cooldown added for missiles. It already takes time to coordinate fire, and that's time broadsides cannot hit the enemy BC. As far as using multiple missiles....

Personally, I use all 4 heavy types - situation pending. Aiming a predator at the enemy BC while a little bit out of sight range gives you a few seconds to hit them accurately with penta/broads/kinectics from afar. Sabertooth knock down shields and hurt core stability. Hellfire do awesome hull damage and set fires to kill the crew. Heavy merc. are the all-around-mess-you-up weapons.

They are already invaluable in a late game fight, and with a person or drones ready to reload they can be fired very quickly - at a cost. I think the discussion here needs to remain on revamping/introducing a long range missile, not rebuilding the whole system. Even though upgrades with repeatable results should take priority, nobody with a lot of experience can deny the awesome firepower they represent.
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Re: long ranged missles

Post  DumbMarine on Thu Jan 24, 2013 6:34 pm

Sheogorath wrote:True that. But of all of these missiles, how many of them are used? And giving missiles a cooldown would tag along well the missile's slow reload: If your reload takes about 10 seconds and your missile launch CD is 5 seconds, then you will run out of missiles far less quickly. In a way.

I use all of the missiles on the bottom row if I'm with a good team. I prefer ending the game before the 20 minute mark though, which cuts out money for missiles. Missiles only come into play if we run out of things to spend money on.

A missile CD would make them worthless. I'd just invest that money into more yamato spam.

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Re: long ranged missles

Post  Siretu on Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:57 am

So, should I create new missiles that work like this or should I make some/all of the existing ones work like this?
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Re: long ranged missles

Post  Red-Rocket on Fri Jan 25, 2013 11:22 pm

Siretu wrote:So, should I create new missiles that work like this or should I make some/all of the existing ones work like this?
I think you should simply upgrade the predator missile and a new long range missile.
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Re: long ranged missles

Post  DumbMarine on Sat Jan 26, 2013 3:10 am

I can see the point of making the Predator missile an infinite range missile, it's the only missile that does something useful when it hits the BC that isn't undone in about 5 seconds.

And I like the idea of launching boarding drones. Boarding and internal ship combat has plenty of potential.

Otherwise I don't see the point. As it was pointed out earlier hull repair is not expensive.

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Re: long ranged missles

Post  Red-Rocket on Sat Jan 26, 2013 6:20 pm

Hull repair isnt expensive but annoying to purchase, the missiles are more like a wake up call and to add something interesting while BCs arent fighting eachother, i suggested predator because of the tracking beacon which is really nice. The long range missiles arent meant to take down a BC it is more meant to freak the other team out which is always fun
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Re: long ranged missles

Post  Siretu on Sun Jan 27, 2013 7:48 am

So let's assume we're going to make a new long range missile. What should it do? Every missile so far has some kind of special ability (except piranha) and I feel like a long range missile will need something special because of what you've already mentioned, it has to have some effect.

What about a very cheap/free missile that deals a decent amount of damage? I don't think a free missile would be very OP since it costs time to purchase and load. I think with two people cooperating and constructing missiles and loading them, you could put on some decent pressure early game which would force the enemy to raise their shields and spend more time on weapons to shoot them down.
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Re: long ranged missles

Post  Sheogorath on Sun Jan 27, 2013 11:18 am

Wouldn't the missile's special effect the fact that it can travel infinitely long distances? Perhaps it could gain slowly gain speed over time, however.

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Re: long ranged missles

Post  Racism Minerbane on Sun Jan 27, 2013 4:02 pm

Spawn robot on enemies cruiser.

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Re: long ranged missles

Post  Red-Rocket on Mon Jan 28, 2013 6:04 pm

could be cheap and not hit hard or we can just implement it to the predator missile as some sort of upgrade from standard to long range as that is the only missile that can really benifit being used long ranged while the rest are meant for up close combat
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Re: long ranged missles

Post  Racism Minerbane on Fri Feb 01, 2013 5:07 pm

Launch a warhead that does high damage to shields and hull but is incredibly slow, appears on random scans and can be shot down by small ships / cruiser weapon console / any projectile

Possibly you launch a predator to put a tracker on the enemy BC so that your stronger warheads can track in on it then deal some serious damage.

Make the damage perhaps scale with how far the target is away from you preventing people from just shooting them in the middle of a cruiser fight.

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Re: long ranged missles

Post  Red-Rocket on Wed Feb 13, 2013 7:54 pm

Maby there can be a seperate missle launcher (or 2 between the 3 missle launchers on each side) that can be loaded with long range missles or instead have them be anti missles or speciel missles that dont do damage
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Re: long ranged missles

Post  Corinthian on Sat Mar 02, 2013 1:59 pm

I love the idea of long range missiles, but asteroids would render this tactic cost-prohibitive.
An upgrade that could be researched is:

Missile Phase Technology - After this upgrade, missiles would only impact enemy ships, they would not impact asteroids.
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Re: long ranged missles

Post  Racism on Sat Mar 02, 2013 2:45 pm

IF rockets had unlimited range and could phase through asteroids then sniping with rockets would be 100% viable and every possible but the short would be so incredibly hard to make that I love the idea of it. Stupid people who stay in place for 30+ seconds will be the only people who suffer (That or a parked cruiser, which is also part of what we want to accomplish I think?)

Regardless, I'd like an update on this thread. What are we going to be doing for long range misstles? Because I'd love to hear what implementations are planned.

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Re: long ranged missles

Post  DumbMarine on Sun Mar 03, 2013 4:18 am

I'd rather long range missiles get 'phasing' for free, they'd be useless without it. It'd be like getting siege tanks without siege tech.

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Re: long ranged missles

Post  Red-Rocket on Sun Mar 03, 2013 9:01 pm

no no no no the long rang missiles can be shot down and blocked by ships, they should be able to go through astroids anyways so that they can get to the BC, Predators dont do all that much dps if sheilds are up, they are meant to just spot the enemy BC for the short range missiles that cannot be shot down (by which i mean anti-missles that are very cheap and can auto-home on the nearest missle and destroy it or those anti-projectiles that small ships can use to block all missles.) the short range missles do DPS in a short range or a very good nav and weps crew able to snipe from a distance, long range is easily countered if you have the right resources for it. The Strike Missles (other variant of long range missles besides Predator) do hit pretty hard but wont be able to do alot of damage to sheilds, (about 250 per hit and 500 hull) They are slow and sensors that can be purchased can warn you of an incoming long range missle. Its meant to add more variants to the game besides ships hunting miners and BC v BCs
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Re: long ranged missles

Post  Tempest on Mon Mar 04, 2013 2:57 am

the heavy missles are the only ones i see used, a free missle that does like 150-200 damage to shields and hull is a great idea it would add more depth to the combat system, however it would also mean more damage would be put out in every fight including rushes which are already tough to get out of. I love the idea of a slow moving missle that passes through asteroids, but my wraith should be able to blow that crap up, make it move slightly slower or the same speed as a seeker missle mineral return off of a miner and home in the same way except to the enemy cruiser. Make it have pings and warnings. make it take a few hits a well shot and timed penta burst should be able to stop it, on impact it could do a few things as a special ability, create a large enough impact to make all players disconnect from their consules, or a power surge doing the same. You could make it slow down energy production for a duration of time for the bc, you could make it eat up energy production for the bc. could make it cause a flash blinding all players inside the bc for a duration, no matter what screen they are on :p. Lots of possibilities. But the light missles, i never use those, i dont see anybody use those unless they have run outta funds and are spending spare change. its hard to make a decision on whats best cuz we dont want to make early rushes too strong, we dont want to make the other missles out shined, and the costs of missles are already where they should be at. that construction terminal is a pain in the ass due to its location, thats the main reason we dont haul from it. but it kinda needs to stay there eh? I'd also like a buff on the amount of core damage hellfire's cause, with the new purge its only fair.

Kinda wish you could order missles from a top deck and have a drone carry through the purchase and transportation :p thats a demanding wish tho it seems.
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Re: long ranged missles

Post  Red-Rocket on Mon Mar 04, 2013 3:43 pm

theres another thread about the light missle that can be used on ships to make ship v ship more interesting so we could see that they arent totally useless as light missles on a BC is not going to help much as most ships get out when they see a BC but 100 dmg is different in ships v ships, dont miss
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Re: long ranged missles

Post  Racism on Tue Mar 05, 2013 5:39 am

I think I mentioned already the extreme opness in just flying around in your ship and just popping miners / wraiths with misstles. As if wraith isn't op enough as is.

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Re: long ranged missles

Post  Red-Rocket on Tue Mar 05, 2013 8:26 am

errr wraith wouldnt have any missiles, corvettes 2 destroyers 4 which would make corvettes more viable mid game and destroyers an option late game before end game
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Re: long ranged missles

Post  Tempest on Tue Mar 05, 2013 7:06 pm

wraiths are far from "OP" o.o they can die just as quickly as a miner if your smart enough. They only have 300 hull xD any ship is "OP" with an upgrade advantage, figure out why you dont have that advantage and you'll be the "OP" one :p
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Re: long ranged missles

Post  GoldenBoy on Tue Mar 05, 2013 8:39 pm

I agree that the wraith isn't OP, but i still think that it performs its intended role well enough right now without any buffs.

Each combat small ship has an obvious intended use:

Wraith: Miner killer and light, fast raider
Corvette: specialized in killing other combat ships (specifically a counter for wraith raids)
Destroyer: A weapon for end game attacks against the BC

Right now wraiths and destroyers do their job well, but corvettes are lacking. You have to admit Tempest that a skilled wraith pilot doesn't have much to fear from a lone corvette, so the vet isn't really performing its intended role. Adding light missiles to the corvette should change this dynamic back to the way it should be, and make corvettes a real deadly threat for wraiths instead of just a pain in the ass that you can fly circles around.
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Re: long ranged missles

Post  Caladbolg on Tue Mar 05, 2013 8:41 pm

we should add an energy lasso to the corvette (like a tractor beam) so it could hook a wraith and ensure its death xD
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Re: long ranged missles

Post  Red-Rocket on Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:24 pm

na that would make corvettes OP against every ship except destroyers (destroyers pretty much 1 shot if you get a direct hit which is very fun for the destroyer guy and should stay the same) wraiths arent really that great later on. Miners can just turbo away, i think the emp does stop turbo for 1 second but doesnt give the wraith enough time to destroy the miner. I think an upgrade can be added to make emp more effective, like shutting down turbo for 5 seconds and engines for 2 seconds, this doesnt seem like much but with a wraith...it doesnt haft to MUAHAHAHA! should be reletivly expensive as this would be a mid game tech as turbos are rarely used early by miners because of the Q spamming and no energy upgrades. Thats my veiw
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Re: long ranged missles

Post  Red-Rocket on Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:24 pm

hangonasec this thread is for long range missles, xD we got way off topic
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Re: long ranged missles

Post  Tempest on Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:43 am

GoldenBoy wrote:I agree that the wraith isn't OP, but i still think that it performs its intended role well enough right now without any buffs.

Each combat small ship has an obvious intended use:

Wraith: Miner killer and light, fast raider
Corvette: specialized in killing other combat ships (specifically a counter for wraith raids)
Destroyer: A weapon for end game attacks against the BC

Right now wraiths and destroyers do their job well, but corvettes are lacking. You have to admit Tempest that a skilled wraith pilot doesn't have much to fear from a lone corvette, so the vet isn't really performing its intended role. Adding light missiles to the corvette should change this dynamic back to the way it should be, and make corvettes a real deadly threat for wraiths instead of just a pain in the ass that you can fly circles around.

i strongly suggest a thruster speed boost for short forward boosts for corvette, their issue is their speed, this would remedy that but make it a much harder ship to fly due to energy consumption
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Re: long ranged missles

Post  Siretu on Wed Mar 06, 2013 5:47 am

Caladbolg wrote:we should add an energy lasso to the corvette (like a tractor beam) so it could hook a wraith and ensure its death xD

We can't really start giving tractor beams to every ship we want to buff. First the Chomper, now the Corvette? Smile
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Re: long ranged missles

Post  Red-Rocket on Wed Mar 06, 2013 8:29 am

another thing about wraith, wraiths are light aircraft but their upgrade for weapons costs 10 yellow 50 red, very few people get that because there is usally very little red to spare for such a soft hitting aircraft, i have gotten all 5 upgrades before and they do hit kinda hard but it isnt worth the cost, i suggest 15 yellow 15 red for the wraith weapons upgrade
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Re: long ranged missles

Post  Tempest on Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:44 pm

i disagree it should stay where its at, the upgrade gives a large boost to the damage output of a wraith and if it were cheaper miners would die much too easilly. I'm a wraith pilot saying dont make the wraith stronger :p
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Re: long ranged missles

Post  Red-Rocket on Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:45 pm

erm, wraiths wouldnt have enough time to kill the miners because miners turbo away to fast, i have used fully upgraded wraiths and it isnt worth it because miners will turbo away (as they have some extra hull and of course extra energy) before you can kill em, you might get their health low but miners are faster then wraiths in speed, maby we could reduce the cost of a wraith? like 75 blue 75 red to make getting more then 1 viable?
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Re: long ranged missles

Post  Tempest on Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:30 pm

then your piloting the wraith wrong Surprised the miners can boost out and are faster, however a wraith can boost sideways to catch up easilly, and a well timed EMP can prevent boosting for a window of time large enough to get the kill, they can also put themselves between the miner and the bc forcing the miner to go in a further direction which allows wraiths to utilize their boosting speed to catch up, that is why its important to never leave for combat without having over 800 energy unless ss energy is maxed. Wraiths are fine where they are at, in every way.
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Tempest

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Re: long ranged missles

Post  Caladbolg on Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:32 pm

the trick is to put yourself between the BC and the miner, they usually have the reflex to turbo somewhere random and then you just chase.

Wraith pretty balanced already imo
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Caladbolg

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Re: long ranged missles

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