Corvette 2.0

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Corvette 2.0

Post  GoldenBoy on Tue Mar 05, 2013 9:26 pm

A post about small ships got me thinking about the dynamics of small ship fights as they stand right now. Specifically, the corvette is frustratingly useless against other veteran plots in any other small ship. The corvette is a sturdy ship, but its low speed and short range weapons means that it wont kill any of the other (faster) small ships unless they royally screw up and let them selves get cough in the corvette's effective range.

Each combat small ship has an obvious intended use:

Wraith: Miner killer and light, fast raider
Corvette: specialized in killing other combat ships (specifically a counter for wraith raids)
Destroyer: A weapon for end game attacks against the BC

Right now wraiths and destroyers do their job well, but corvettes are lacking. For a skilled wraith pilot, a corvette is just an annoyance that it can fly circles around, instead of the major threat that it should be. Something needs to be done to make the corvette a more effective counter.

There are a few ideas that could help even the odds, my favorite is adding the ability for the corvette to carry, and shoot light missiles. This would kill two birds with one stone. Light missiles are obviously a tailored anti-small ship weapon, but don't see any use because a BC has plenty of ability to take care of small ships with lasers or kinetics. Allowing corvettes to fire missiles is a simple change that would get players using all the assets that CC has to offer, and at the same time make corvettes a ship that wraiths should avoid, instead of a ship that they target as an easy kill.

Of course there are other options. An upgrade available at the upgrade console could give Corvettes the option to shoot a longer range, and narrow spread barrage to make fight more even. Or (this one comes from Caladbolg) an upgrade could be made available could give corvettes a weaker version of a tractor beam, that would allow them to temporarily capture other small ships and make the most of their close range barrage.

Any ideas that the community has are welcome of course, but I think it is clear that something needs to be done to make the corvette more of a danger to other skilled small ship pilots.
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Re: Corvette 2.0

Post  Caladbolg on Tue Mar 05, 2013 9:33 pm

we could also give it a mass EMP (area of effect, about the same as its weapon range) all around the corvette. every ss in the perimeter (allied or enemy) would get their engines turned off. This would also include the activating corvette, shutting its engine. The use of this would be to paralyze miners/wraiths in the corvette's attack.

Not sure if this is a buff or a nerf but I'd like to see that skill on some ship xD
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Re: Corvette 2.0

Post  GoldenBoy on Tue Mar 05, 2013 9:42 pm

Its an interesting idea Cala, but I don't think it would fix the root of the issue.

Right not a fight between a wraith and a corvette is (as Tempest described it to me) a fight between a slow shotgun, and a quick sniper rifle. The wraith can dance around the corvette without ever getting in its range. To fix this we either need to use something to increase the corvette's effective range (that's what missiles or a longer range barrage would do), or some scheme that would allow the corvette to get the wraith within its smaller range (like your lasso idea).

An EMP that turned off both engines wouldn't do much good because a wraith has quicker acceleration. So it would be fun, but wouldn't change the dynamics of the fight.



Last edited by GoldenBoy on Tue Mar 05, 2013 9:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Corvette 2.0

Post  Caladbolg on Tue Mar 05, 2013 9:50 pm

then again, I believe that if used right, stopping both ship acceleration could give the vette an edge. it would also be a counter to the Wraiths EMP (you emp me, I emp you!)

I believe that stopping both would still allow the corvette to atleast land 2-4 additional hits.



Still, for the problem of the wraith not ever coming into range, it wouldn't solve the problem.
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Re: Corvette 2.0

Post  Tempest on Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:38 pm

don't call me biased because im a wraith pilot but i disagree with your posts for these reasons

Corvettes are energy consuming slow moving defenders, with thrusters upgraded and the other upgrades it does a great amount of damage but still at a low speed, its mobility suggests it should protect miners or chompers or with its new and fixed shield it can even scout. I have been killed by corvettes before, its not impossible it just takes patience and intelligence, the wraith gains nothing by letting you heal your energy, and thats exactly what you want to do when out of attack range is park, that also suggests hug your miners and defend, let the danger come to you then mess it up. People like to use it as an attacking ship when it shouldn't be unless it has the thruster advantage it needs to perform. Lightbringer was playing against me today against my wraith which was shielded, but without upgrades other than ss energy. hes not a 200 rep player but hes smart. He hugged his miners and didnt chase me like most corvettes would, when i came to circle around and hit his miners he would be there full thrusters waiting, and land a few hits on me before i could boost out. This is how a corvette should be played, if your chasing an enemy player your not supposed to catch them or be able to pull them in, out smart them and be where they don't want you to, the wraith is the hunter, he corvette is the stocky protector.

In all fairness i can see the corvette needing one thing, a forward boost in speed that is controllable but very short and temporary. that is needed to close onto a miner before it boosts out, against a wraith if timed correctly it would land the hits needed to give an edge in combat. maybe a 10m/s boost, however this will add to the corvettes already demanding energy consumption. better land those shots o.o... it would also provide the mobility a corvette needs to scout the enemy bc and survive within its 10 second shielding window.

idk if you realize this but when a wraith comes to a full stop in direction and tries to turn, it halves its effective flying speed and must regain it. the corvette isnt the target that takes too long Surprised make him come to you and make him turn around or waste energy dashing out
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Re: Corvette 2.0

Post  Caladbolg on Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:45 pm

I still like the lasso idea. make it have no effect, it would just look cool.
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Re: Corvette 2.0

Post  Tempest on Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:46 pm

this is cruiser command not space cowboys :p leave the lassoing to the professionals.
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Re: Corvette 2.0

Post  Caladbolg on Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:50 pm

Tempest wrote:this is cruiser command not space cowboys :p leave the lassoing to the professionals.

you haven't seen my bedroom play then xD

woops! off-topic
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Re: Corvette 2.0

Post  Red-Rocket on Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:28 pm

I like missiles on corvettes, and the idea of a narrower spread isnt what we should be going for, im going for 'add more lazers to each volley' instead of your? 5? 6? up to 8 same spread range, more damage
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Re: Corvette 2.0

Post  Tempest on Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:38 am

their issue isnt their damage output, its the ability to put it into effect, they need a short boost in speed skill its the perfect solution in my eyes. a forward thruster with a cooldown similar to engine boost for bc's
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Re: Corvette 2.0

Post  Corinthian on Wed Mar 06, 2013 5:31 am

In general I like the idea of quick cheap upgrades more than standard abilities. It provides for a wider variety of play styles, and reinforces cooperative strategies instead of lone-wolf tactics.

I like the Missile idea, I like the Short Boost idea.

Corvette Possibilities

  • Torpedo Tubes: 10y 0b 20r 4sec; the ability to carry 2 Light Missiles.

  • Interceptor Engine: 15y 10b 15r 8sec; provides a 15m/s boost to speed for 4 seconds.

  • Interception Sonar: 15y 10b 0r 4sec; 'active pings' wraiths within 1.5 screens.

  • Enhanced Reactor: 20y 10b 0r 5g 6sec; provides 2GW additional energy.

Of course, if all of these were put into effect, the wraith would require its own set of enhancement possibilities.


Last edited by Corinthian on Wed Mar 06, 2013 6:02 am; edited 2 times in total
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Re: Corvette 2.0

Post  Siretu on Wed Mar 06, 2013 5:52 am

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I though the reason Wraiths can win against Corvettes is due to the kiting? They can keep out of the Corvette's attack range and fire a little and go back.

A pretty boring, but I believe effective, way of fixing this is to increase the Corvette range with like... 20%. It would make it way harder for Wraiths to kite Corvettes.

I'm not really against giving the Corvette light missiles, I just haven't had time to implement that yet.
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Re: Corvette 2.0

Post  Tempest on Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:49 pm

15 m/s is way too fast for a short boost on corvette ;o it would be the perfect solution though just time it right and you got yourself a wraith kill easy. and it shouldnt last 4 seconds it would need to be about 2 or 3. Siretu your correct in saying this but even when a wraith messes up and gets close he just needs to spend a little energy and swiftly retreat, there should be more of a window for the corvette to do some damage but their god awful slow movement speed prevents that. their firepower is already great, and if players started loading a corvette with missles theres just more minerals flying out the window just to make the corvette usable in combat players will waste currency stupidly. if you give the corvette its larger range it wont matter against a wraith, the bullets have too far of a spread towards the end of the barrage and its way too easy to dodge, if you have the hand to eye coordination to do it :p
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Re: Corvette 2.0

Post  Red-Rocket on Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:47 pm

unless you added more of a spread like i suggested, make them able to deal with wraiths as wraiths have more energy later on, in the early stages wraiths just haft to run away because they dont have the energy to kite a corvette
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Re: Corvette 2.0

Post  Tempest on Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:49 am

your incorrect on both statements, wraiths have the same energy as corvettes later on, and in early stages wraiths do not have to retreat the purpose of saving up 800 or more energy at start is for ability to kite if needed, a corvette hurts on energy as much as a kiting wraith does just trying to land his shots, if a wraith runs out of energy first its because the corvette was being more energy efficient and not firing at illogical times. The only thing a corvette needs is a movement boost, if it had the ability to pull enemies in it would be over powered due to its shotgun spread, it should require more skill than that to close in and attack, missiles are also a possibility if they include a movement impairing effect but i find it to be more intelligent for the boost just so corvettes can kill a miner before it boosts out with higher probability, even though that's NOT its job.

also MORE of a spread means the shots will be wider, and more spread out at range o.o im going to assume you meant LESS spread Very Happy
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Re: Corvette 2.0

Post  Red-Rocket on Thu Mar 07, 2013 3:53 pm

i meant a wider spread, ive always veiwed corvettes as close combat but it may be that corvettes will need to have higher range
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Re: Corvette 2.0

Post  Tempest on Thu Mar 07, 2013 4:59 pm

any unit that fires in a cone should always be considered close range, giving those shots further distance accomplishes nothing, the shot being so wide spread will only mean one thing - wasted energy. if you want your corvette to be usefull 2-3 or more of those shots need to land per volley and if they are not your not being energy efficient enough to pilot it, not to mention wraiths will just maneuver between the laser spread like we already do xD it either needs an energy based missle system that does low damage and slows movement speed, for defensive purposes ---> or a boost enabling it to close the distance for just a moment to land the necessary damage. only problem is the missle system doesnt offer anything against a miner, they will fire up that boost and be gone, where at least the boost gives you a small window to unload enough damage before the boost fires up.
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Re: Corvette 2.0

Post  Corinthian on Fri Mar 08, 2013 11:11 am

I agree with Tempest. The best solution for the Corvette is a short range engine boost.
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Re: Corvette 2.0

Post  Siretu on Fri Mar 08, 2013 11:43 am

Okay, should it be researchable or enabled by default?
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Re: Corvette 2.0

Post  Tempest on Fri Mar 08, 2013 12:05 pm

due to early wraith rushes saving their energy up and having high mobility at start that does leave the corvette lacking a little. It could go either way im thinking it should be default and scale with enhanced thrusters so that late game reaches a higher top speed. just to give the corvette the little umph it needs to do its job protecting its miners.
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Re: Corvette 2.0

Post  Red-Rocket on Fri Mar 08, 2013 3:58 pm

It should be purchasable but cheap like 10 yellow 25 blue, something like that
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Re: Corvette 2.0

Post  Tempest on Fri Mar 08, 2013 6:01 pm

i think it should be 15 blue 25 red, seeing as enhanced thrusters call for blues and reds i think it would be logical for this research to be the same.
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Re: Corvette 2.0

Post  Red-Rocket on Fri Mar 08, 2013 6:25 pm

red is for weps, thrusters seem like an energy sort of thing, and the fact that early early game calls for everyone getting 70 yellow 15 blue (or is it 10 for scanners?) and 120 red. and the fact that red is constantly used there is no way we should make thrusters red as red would be used elsewhere and the fact that engines arent directly responsible for damage
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Re: Corvette 2.0

Post  Caladbolg on Fri Mar 08, 2013 6:37 pm

Still, as tempest said : logically speed should involve red if we look at other upgs.

and I think deciding between upgrading corvette or get that small boost to early weapon should be a choice left to captains
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Re: Corvette 2.0

Post  Siretu on Fri Mar 08, 2013 6:39 pm

The logic I try to follow when I set the prices are:

Veldite: General
Chalcorium: Shields and energy
Pyromanite: Engines and weapons
Kermiculite: High-Tech
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Re: Corvette 2.0

Post  Red-Rocket on Fri Mar 08, 2013 6:40 pm

hum...rediciding, another blue and red upgrade as there is only 1 other in the game (ship thrusters) 30 blue 10 red
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Re: Corvette 2.0

Post  Tempest on Fri Mar 08, 2013 8:59 pm

i can agree with 30b 10r, this would also give more use to blues other than small ship purchases for shields and nullifiers. maybe even 25 blue though, even fusion core and engine boost use a small fraction of blues in comparison to the numbers of reds/yellows required.
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Re: Corvette 2.0

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